January 24, 2000 (Mesomorphosis, Volume 3, Number 2)
by The Sandwich
There are numerous books and "articles" about supplements, but very
few of them are unbiased and truthful. Some of them are even
advertisements in disguise. In an effort to bring you the straight
facts, I conducted a very detailed interview with none other than
Will Brink,
one of bodybuilding’s top, most-respected (and honest) gurus.
As you know, supplements, to the bodybuilder, are very important.
Some bodybuilders do not think twice about spending $250 a month on
supplements, while others only use protein powder or a multivitamin. In
any event, supplements are used by nearly every person who bodybuilds,
but there still is a lot of confusion out there, and getting the answers
is sometimes hard to come by. That is why I conducted this interview
(plus, my car payments are past-due).
I think that nearly any question you have about
supplements
will be answered in this interview. Anyhow, I’m not too good with these
intro’s, and there is a lot of information for you to digest, so lets
get to it. Enjoy!
Part I: Picking Brink's Brain
Part II: Picking Brink's Brain
The Sandwich: I remember back a
couple years ago that insulin-sensitivity increasing supplements, such
as Vanadyl Sulfate and Chromium, were all the rage at the time. Now,
though, as you know, they disappeared from the market and a new crop of
these types of products has surfaced. One of them being Alpha Lipoic
Acid. What's the scoop on this supplement?
Will Brink: I believe I was one of the first people to write
an article on Lipoic acid in MuscleMag a few years ago. I wrote it with
my friend Dr. Clouatre if I recall. The scoop on it is it's a really
good anti oxidant, certainly good for you, and of dubious use to
bodybuilders. It clearly improves the insulin sensitivity of diabetics,
and so far, at least 600mg a day is needed to get that effect. What
works in people with frank insulin management problems, which is of
course diabetics, and what will work in athletes who don't really suffer
from such problems, is two different things. Plenty of bodybuilders have
been taking various drugs used by diabetics without anything great
happening. GH, steroids, and other drugs are known to cause mild insulin
insensitivity, but I have yet to see anyone gain any muscle from the
different drugs known to improve insulin sensitivity. Some bodybuilders
have come up with wacky ideas of injecting insulin and trying to time
the intake of oral drugs used by diabetics to improve glucose disposal,
but the main effect of this strategy is often fainting and a whopper of
a headache. Some people do report 600mg and above intakes of Lipoic acid
taken over the day improved muscle fullness, but that's anecdotal stuff.
Of course the effect, if there is one, would also depend on the status
of the persons insulin metabolism was to begin with.
So, if I were a diabetic I would use it for sure, but it's expensive
stuff.
The Sandwich: For your average,
non-steroid using bodybuilder, what supplements would you recommend for
fat burning? You were the person who introduced flax oil to
bodybuilding, do you still recommend it?
Will Brink: I don't really like the term "fat burning." It
does not make much sense. It's like the term "toning and firming." What
the hell does it really mean? I would use the term "fat loss" at the
very least. Boring as it sounds, a well made ephedrine caffeine product
and flax oil are the two most obvious and time tested products that come
to mind. Since I first wrote about flax oil I have come to appreciate it
as a fat loss agent and overall health improving product even more in
fact. I am trying to convince one of the major manufacturers of flax oil
to sponsor a study on the effects of flax oil on fat loss in active
people. Some people seem to get a real effect from Metabolic Thyrolean,
especially when combined with the EC (ephedrine/caffeine) products. The
Triax product combined with the above in high enough doses would
probably help also, but the long term safety of using Triax is
questionable in my view. There are of course lots of new wiz bang things
coming out, and old favorites like L-carnitine, Chromium, and others,
but neither group gets me all that excited honestly.
The Sandwich: DHEA has come and gone
as a would-be bodybuilding supplement, but some companies are still
hyping it. I don't think it's worth the money, personally.
Will Brink: Worth the money for what, is the real question.
For a man over say 40 years old who might have low DHEA levels, it's a
good idea. There is enough research out there showing the health
benefits of maintaining youthful levels of DHEA to justify a person
using DHEA. As a muscle builder, I would agree that DHEA has been
generally a big flop. None of the "in the know" people in the industry
ever got all that excited about DHEA as any kind of sports product. As a
life extension product, it is worth it. I take 25mg every other day
myself.
The Sandwich: Liquid Creatine. This
creatine product is mainly being marketed by Muscle Marketing USA, which
has the "Liquid Creatine Serum," and So-Cal, who has the "Turbo Blast
600." Your thoughts?
Will Brink: I will just say what I generally said in my
articles on the topic, that some of the best scientists around who work
with creatine have told me it will not remain stable in any liquids for
any period of time, and they have tried like hell to make such a
product. That does not mean some person some day may come up with a way
to keep creatine stable in a liquid or gel, but the tests I have seen so
far showed all of the products tested across the board were low in
creatine and high in creatinine and other break down products, leading
to one conclusion, which is no one has yet figured it out. If the
companies you listed above have figured it out, more power to them.
The Sandwich: Dan Duchaine commented
on the injectable pro hormones, and said they are perhaps the most
effective supplement on the market. Do you think they are worth the high
price that they go for?
Will Brink: I don't really know what Dan would base that
statement on. I assume you are paraphrasing him. Regardless, in my
opinion, if you are going to go through the trouble of sticking a needle
in your body, you might as well do the real thing. You sure as hell are
not being "natural" by jabbing yours self with a needle full of pro
hormones. At the cost of the injectable pro hormones, I fail to see the
point, legal issues not withstanding. I have yet to talk to anyone who
has injected these products, so I can't give any decent real world
feedback. I think the correct statement would be, they have the
potential to be effective perhaps, but I don't see the value at this
point. Bruce Kneller and I talked about doing a similar idea years ago.
We considered putting andro into some type of sterile suspension and
putting it in individual 2cc amps and telling people (wink wink) it was
for oral use only. We decided it would sell like hot cakes and wind us
both up in prison, so we dropped the idea. Unlike Dan and others, I am
allergic to prison and therefore drop ideas I think will head me in that
direction.
Hopefully this does not happen to the makers of them there 'topical'
prohormones that come in 10cc viles with rubber tops and are supposed to
be sterile.
The Sandwich: Protein bars. These
products have recently taken a big boom, especially at GNC. I once was
speaking to a person at MET-Rx, and they said that its impossible to
have a protein bar that has 30 grams of protein in it – which these
companies say they have - without a ton of fat. Furthermore, some
companies are using a compound called "Glycerol" as a binding agent.
What can u tell us about this?
Will Brink: Personally I am not a fan of the bars as a rule.
They are generally a glorified candy bar. Not that that is a bad thing
per se, but I don't really dig candy bars much. If I am going to eat a
meal, I will eat food.
If I need something quick, I will blend up a drink or an MRP. If I
want sweets, I will have a piece of home made pie or ice cream. Bars
just fall between the cracks for me. I will say I have seen some pretty
interesting bars coming out that really are starting to look less like a
candy bar and more like real designer food. New sweeteners and just
better technology, is allowing bar manufacturers to make some pretty
cool stuff. The other day I had a test bar at Prolab that had high
protein, low fat, and like no carbs.
Those bars usually taste like crap but this one was really quite
good.
Tasted like a Three Musketeers. So, bars will improve but there is an
upper limit of just how good they can get and it has to do with cost. I
could whip up the best bar you ever ate but it would cost like four
bucks retail and people are just not willing to pay that much for a bar.
So, companies are limited with just how far they can go with that.
Glycerol has been around for a long time and can even be purchased in
most drug stores as a skin softener or for other uses. It has sort of
has an oily taste in the mouth and so is used for mouth feel and texture
in the bars to keep the fat content down. Some bodybuilders use glycerol
as a plasma expander of sorts precontest as it will pull fluid into the
vascular system for a little while giving some people more vascularity
and a crushing headache. Never really did anything for the people I know
who have used it precontest, but some swear by it.
The Sandwich: Speaking of protein,
what do you think about Meal Replacement Powders (MRP's), such as
MET-Rx, Myoplex, and Lean Body? Some of the old school bodybuilders
think they are a waste of money, and that food is the way to go.
Will Brink: It's a silly argument. Food is food and MRPs are
supplements to food. Both can live with each other just fine in a
persons diet. MRPs are great between meals, after workouts, and when you
are on the go and just can't get a meal. There are some people that make
MRPs like their only protein source and that comes under the heading of
too much of a good thing.
The Sandwich: Are there certain
things a person should look for when buying an MRP?
Will Brink: Tough question really. Might seem simple, but it's
not. For the most part, an MRP is an MRP and people should get what
tastes best to them. What I personally look for is one without
hydrogenated fats, plenty of high quality protein, various thing like
glutamine, minerals, etc. I also prefer MRPs with less thickening agents
in them. I really don't like the MRPs that turn into cake batter when
you blend them. Why do they think people want their drink to be as thick
as quick sand? But hey, the thickest MRP is also the top seller, so I
must be wrong I guess. What I don't like is an MRP that puts in a
microscopic amount of something just to claim it's on the label. I think
people are catching onto that and less companies are doing it, but it's
still out there.
The Sandwich: One new supplement that
I am quite excited about is Triax. What can you tell us about this
supplement, and is it safe? I know some of the experts on the Internet
are saying it could be dangerous.
Will Brink: Calling it a supplement is questionable at best,
but what the hell. You have to give that Derek Cornelius credit for
having huge brass balls.
Injectable...err umm...I mean topical andro products, thyophiline in
his fat burners, and now Triacana sold as a supplement. Like him or not,
the man has nads the size of water melons.Triax is a thyroid hormone
that is a downstream metabolite of T3, the most active of the thyroid
hormones. The body uses this metabolite as a feedback loop to tell it to
reduce thyroid output. So, high doses of Triax will for sure shut down
the thyroid pretty well and some countries use it for just that. As a
diet aid, in high enough doses, it should help maintain metabolism and
body temperature, while on a reduced calorie diet. Supposedly, even
though the thyroid gland is suppressed while on Triax, it rebounds
quickly to normal levels after a person stops using it. However, I bet
if a person was to use enough of the "supplement" for a long enough
period of time, there could be a permanent reduction of thyroid hormones
due to the gland being inactive for so long.
How much and how long I don't know, but I would warn people to at
least cycle the stuff just to be safe. I don't think it's dangerous per
se, but at the same time I would not recommend people use it to lose
weight. At least I would not personally use it, but I am very
conservative as that stuff goes. I don't personally like ephedrine but
it does work for weight loss and is safe when used as directed. Large
amounts of Triax could elevate heart rate slightly, but all in all the
side effects should not be serious to a healthy athlete, assuming some
bone head does not swallow the entire bottle or something goofy like
that.
The Sandwich: Dan Duchaine recently
said that he is coming out with a new, plant-based DNP-like fat burner.
What are your thoughts on this, and is Dan pushing the envelope a little
too far this time?
Will Brink: I call DNP 'dieting by bug spray' as DNP was often
found in bug poison formulas. Is Dan pushing the envelope? Of course.
What else would we expect from Dan? Dan is a pioneer and a theorist.
It's the very nature and job description of a pioneer to push the
envelope, to do things others either can't, wont, or don't want, to do.
It's up to the individual or society to tell a pioneer he has gone too
far, but to ask him not to do what is in his nature is to lose possible
breakthroughs only a nut - I mean pioneer - can offer. Dan is a total
nut, but a very smart nut indeed. DNP is a chemical that has been around
a long time for weight loss. It dropped out of favor decades ago because
the FDA decided it was dangerous but several weight loss doctors have
had great success with it and feel it's safe if used properly. DNP is
called an uncoupler or inhibitor of oxidative phosphorylation. Basically
it works by blocking the conversion of ATP substrates to ATP. The energy
is released as heat. Dan calls is "dieting by cooking yourself." Anyway,
there are two major issues as I see it with DNP. One, DNP was found to
have a low LD50. What that means is, the dose that was found to make
people lose weight is not much lower than the dose that can kill you!
Secondly, the use of DNP probably causes a huge increase in free radical
production. So, people should never ever use more than is specifically
recommended and they should really load up on the anti-oxidants like
vitamin C, E, selenium, NAC, Lipoic acid, etc. Me, I would not touch the
stuff with a ten foot pole and think anyone who does is nuts. As for
Dan's natural plant-based product, there are several things that have
been found to be mild to strong uncouplers of oxidative phosphorylation.
For example, some poly unsaturated fatty acids have been found to be
weak uncouplers of oxidative phosphorylation, and this may partly
explain their ability to help with weight loss. So, if Dan has such a
thing, and I have no reason to think he does not, then it would probably
help with fat loss.
The Sandwich: Let me give you a
scenario: Bill Phillips sodomized himself with a hot dog, and then
pooped it back out of his ass. He then offers you a box of Myoplex and
$1 million dollars to eat it. Would u?
Will Brink: For a million dollars, no. Really, a million
dollars is not very much money when you look at it. So you eat this guys
poop dog and get a million bucks. You buy a nice house, a nice car, and
pay the taxes on the million, and you have what? No money, a huge
mortgage to pay, and really bad breath. Now, for ten million I would at
least give it serious consideration.
The Sandwich: Will, you have given us
some great detailed answers. I want to try something different. I am
going to just throw some rapid fire questions at you and I want you to
answer them quickly and in one sentence or less. OK?
Will Brink: OK.
The Sandwich: Would you like to
comment on Ribose?
Will Brink: A lot of hype considering how little research
there is with athletes, but may hold promise.
The Sandwich: Many doctors,
nutritionists and personal trainers say you don't need antioxidants;
that you get everything you need from the food you eat. What are your
thoughts on that?
Will Brink: They’re idiots.
The Sandwich: How old were you when
you first got laid?
Will Brink: I forget honestly, but pretty young. I have been
lucky in that respect.
The Sandwich: Soy Protein vs. Whey
protein. Some experts are recommending soy protein over whey protein,
and you were one of the first to introduce whey protein to the market.
Will Brink: Apples and oranges really. For athletes, I would
go with the whey but soy has its uses.
The Sandwich: A fair share of
bodybuilders out there cannot afford an MRP. How could one go about
making their own MRP using regular groceries and protein powder?
Will Brink: Cup of water, half cup of juice, handful of frozen
strawberries, two scoops whey protein, one tablespoon flax oil. Blend.
Done.
The Sandwich: What supplements do you
recommend post workout?
Will Brink: Anadrol (laughs).
The Sandwich: Ever since the popular
party drug and one-time bodybuilding supplement, GHB, was banned by the
FDA, a new precursor to "G," as its commonly called, have emerged (such
as Renewtrient). What are your thoughts on these quasi-legal supplements
and are they safe?
Will Brink: Perfectly safe if used correctly. Don't know what
real use they have to bodybuilders. Great for sleep and relaxing.
The Sandwich: Pyruvate. Good, or a
waste of money?
Will Brink: Generally a waste for athletes.
The Sandwich: Would you kill Bill
Phillips for $100 million dollars if you would never get caught?
Will Brink: Clearly you have a crush on Bill Phillips.
The Sandwich: Micronized creatine. Is
this stuff better than the regular creatine powder?
Will Brink: Better in that it mixes easier so people don't
taste grit. No one has looked to see if it improves absorption.
The Sandwich: What is your opinion of
the andro products being used on women?
Will Brink: I don't like a mustache on my women, at least not
one thicker than mine!
The Sandwich: You recently got
married, right? Do you poop in front of your wife or poop with the door
open?
Will Brink: (Laughs) Closed door always. Man needs his
privacy to do his business.
The Sandwich: What kind of diet would
you recommend for a bodybuilder who wants to gain as much muscle as
possible under natural conditions?
Will Brink: Not taking bodyfat into account? Pizza, flax oil,
and creatine diet (laughs).
The Sandwich: What kind of diet would
you recommend for someone trying to lose as much fat as possible while
sparing their hard-earned muscle mass?
Will Brink: Moderate fat of the right types and correct
ratios, high protein, low carb.
The Sandwich: What supplement stack
is the absolute "bare necessities" for someone on a budget?
Will Brink: Impossible to answer really.
The Sandwich: Give us your opinion of
the FDA and the DEA and how they conduct themselves; the impact they
have on our industry as a whole.
Will Brink: Worse than the CIA and the IRS combined!
Special Thanks: To the coolest guy in bodybuilding,
Will Brink,
who busted his ass and went out of his way to do this interview .