Ask Lyle McDonald #9

by Lyle McDonald

Lyle McDonald is the author of the Ketogenic Diet as well as the Rapid Fat Loss Handbook and the Guide to Flexible Dieting. He has been interested in all aspects of human performance physiology since becoming involved in competitive sports as a teenager. Pursuing a degree in Physiological Sciences from UCLA, he has devoted nearly 20 years of his life to studying human physiology and the science, art and practice of human performance, muscle gain, fat loss and body recomposition.

Publication Date: December 15, 1998

Subject: Creatine and Benching

I was wondering if you could help me answer a few questions? I've taken creatine monohydrate before, but never really kept track of the gains that I had made from it. I haven’t taken it for bout a 1/2 a year now but I was wondering how many lbs. on my bench press I would gain if I loaded up and started a maintenance of it again, I have purchased a high performance transport with simple carbohydrates to spike insulin levels formula, and just want to know if or how long it would take to add about 20,30, and 40 lbs. to my bench press, or If I will even do that? Any information will be very appreciated

Unfortunately, there's really no way to answer this question. In the first place, whether creatine supplements will automatically increase bench 1RM is highly debatable. I'm aware of one study that said that it did but I'm hard pressed to come up with a reason why (probably increased cellular hydration and leverage). More likely, creatine will allow you to get more reps (since it increases energy stores) with a given weight. In theory, this should allow slightly faster strength gains to be made. But at what rate? I have absolutely no idea.

Subject: DNP Not Working

You probably get tired of all the questions I ask.

Not yet. <G>

Well I started an 8-day cycle of DNP. I'm taking 4mg/kg every 36 hours. The first day I took it at 7:00 am Wed. I felt a little warmer than normal, but never to the point where a broke out into a sweat. I took my next dosage at 7:00 PM Thurs., and felt the same as before. I took my next dose at 7:00 am Sat., and never broke out into a sweat. My question is, why am I not sweating like everyone says you will? I'm a little uncomfortable at times, but I'm not miserable. I've read that someone else had this same type of experience when he first took it but it didn't last. Or do you think my source might have given me lower dose than what I requested?

You didn't say whether you were dosing relative to total bodyweight or lean body weight so I'll assume the latter. 4 mg/kg is a fairly low dose (to give you a comparison point, I was using between 5-8 mg/kg although I do NOT recommend it). The side effects are dose dependent (as are the thermogenic effects). Basically, up the point that you cook your brain, more DNP will raise metabolic rate more but it will affect you that much more. So it may be that your dose is low enough that you're not noticing the increase in temperature.

I suppose it's also possible that your source didn't load the capsules correctly (either deliberately or accidentally) and you're not getting as much as you think. But I wouldn't use that as a reason to try more. Even small doses of DNP have profound metabolic effects. Were I to ever use it again, I'd probably go with lower doses to minimize the side effects. Sure, it will take longer to reach any goals you might have, but you also won't have to fun a fan in the middle of winter because you're sweating to death.

Subject: Pyruvate

Dear Lyle,

Just wanted to ask you about the "fat loss" supplement pyruvate. In a moment of weakness, I called up a company and ordered three bottles (they were on sale). This, of course, without doing any proper research on it. Although I did ask the person on the phone how people on Ketogenic Diets [I'm an Atkins] fare with the supplements, and he told me they do rather well [with reported weight loss of 4 lbs. a week].

I think they are bullshitting you for a few reasons.

1. The Atkins people tend to confuse weight loss with true fat loss.

2. A true fat loss of 4 lbs. would require a caloric deficit of 14000 calories, which would be 2000 calories below maintenance/day.

3. Even the best pyruvate studies (using massive doses of 36 grams/day) only showed an increased fat loss of about 1.5lbs over 2 weeks, or 0.75 lbs./week. So unless you were losing 3.25 lbs. of fat/week already, 4 lbs. per week is effectively impossible.

4. I have seen the mention that exogenous pyruvate will interrupt ketosis.

Well, I have these bottles which I've already bought. So I might as well try them. But for the life of me, I can't figure out how they work... or how the sellers "think" they work. Every web page that sells the stuff keep pointing to a study done in Pittsburgh, where fat loss was found in obese women... but they don't explain the mechanisms.

That's because no-one knows for sure how it works.

Now, flipping to my biochemistry textbook, the usual path is for pyruvate to be converted to AcetylCoA, which then feeds into the Kreb's Cycle, and makes a whole lotto NADH's and FADH2's to go to the electron transport chain. Thing is, won't the increased concentration of AcetylCoA's allow for fatty acid synthesis to take place?

Only when certain other conditions favoring lipogenesis are met, such as decreased CPT-1 (carnitine palmityl transferase) activity and increased levels of malonyl-CoA.

Or, if you're in ketosis, don't these extra AcetylCoA's, from the pyruvate, are just used to form more ketone Bodies?

That would be my guess, that excess acetyl-CoA would be condensed into ketones. Thing is, this should also result in less fat loss, because it would mean less ketones are being made out of stored free fatty acids.

Where do these "fat burning" effects lie? Seemingly, pyruvate supplements, by providing an intermediate in cellular respiration, should equal more calories, right? And for a dieter, that's a no-no. Anyhow, I just wanted your thoughts on the supplement. Ultimately, all I need to know is would taking these supplements help or hurt me.

To be honest, I have no idea how pyruvate works (and I've been thinking about this off and on since I got your question). One potential mechanism I have seen suggested is maintenance of thyroid levels through maintenance of liver ATP/energy potential. Thing is, thyroid doesn’t necessarily correlate with metabolic rate on keto diets (i.e. I have a few studies which show massive drops in T3 but no drop in oxygen uptake on a keto diet).

The only other mechanism I can think of is that perhaps pyruvate somehow pushes a futile energy cycle, which burns off ATP and energy. That is to say, the lack of pyruvate (from decreased glucose availability) on a lowcarb (or just severely calorically restricted diet) might cause certain cellular processes to slow down, meaning that less energy is being used to push them. By cranking up futile energy cycles, pyruvate might increase overall energy utilization by the body.

But the ultimate problem is that the effect is just so damn small. In the two earliest studies, it took monstrous doses of pyruvate (16-36 grams/day) to get even a small effect (again ~ 0.7 lbs./week in the 16 g/day study and about twice that in the 42 g/day study, indicating that the results are dose dependent). At the kind of doses that are being recommended (2-4 g/day or so), I doubt that the results will be anything but a lighter wallet.

On the other hand, a recent study (which I'm awaiting full publication on, though I have seen the pre-publication study) found a huge fat loss with a mere 6 g/day on moderate calorie diet with exercise. But the study design (at least in the pre-publication version I got) has a few problems that I'm waiting to see the full published version before I comment on. Additionally, a friend of mine (who's opinion I trust) used low dose pyruvate during preparation for a bodybuilding contest and does think that it helped him. Unfortunately, he was taking so many other supplements that it's hard to tell.

Beyond the potential for pyruvate to affect ketosis, I can't see any real harm for you to try the pyruvate you've already bought. Might as well try it and see what happens. If the effects are magical, please let me know.

Subject: Miscellaneous Supplement Questions

Dear Lyle,

I'm really planning to stack this supplements could you please in your opinion specify when to take this supplements (before/after workout, before/after meals etc.)

Creatine Monohydrate

during loading: doesn't matter since you have to take it 4 times per day anyhow maintenance does: if you do one, after workout is the best choices with/without meals: since insulin increases creatine uptake into muscles, creatine should be taken with carbs of some sort.

Glutamine

Debatable but I'd probably say either before or after training to replace what is lost. Since you're probably not eating before your workouts, this would be without meals.

Vanadyl Sulfate

Since the daily dose is fairly high (40-120 mg/day), it should be taken in divided dose throughout the day. I can't see that taking it before or after workout would make a whit of difference in results, since they tend to take about 4 weeks to show up anyhow. I don't think it will matter whether you take it with or without meals.

Protein supplement

I can make a good argument (see my upcoming protein article on Jan 1st) for protein taken an hour before workout. It'll probably have a greater impact on muscle growth than protein taken after a workout although after workout is an important time to get both protein and carbs in. I suppose you could take protein supplements with your meals but why bother, food is cheaper and tastes better.

Tribulus Terrestris

Couldn't tell you, don't know much about the stuff. Since it's affecting hormonal axes (supposedly), I doubt it matters when you take it.

Androstenedione

if you want to increase workout intensity, approx. 45' before your workout would be best. If you want to prevent any exercise induced drop in testosterone (which typically starts to occur around the 45' mark or so), take it right before your workout. if you're dosing multiple times throughout the day for some reason, I'd probably put one dose before training and the other doses spread throughout the day.

Subject: Carb Load Problems

Lyle,

I have used your data as a reference for myself. while reading through the weeks of your logs I felt like I was experiencing what you were (don’t think I’m some kind of psycho) and could relate well.   here goes: iv been on the anabolic diet for 2 weeks (no weekend re-carbs) and the first weekend I ate like a pig! junk food galore. this weekend was thanks giving and I think the rest is pretty self explanatory right?

This is pretty normal. Part of it is psychological, you eat all the junk you can simply because you can. I did the same thing for the same reason. Part of it is physiological. There is some evidence for decreased insulin resistance after a period of low-carb dieting, which means that insulin doesn't work as well. The end result is larger blood sugar and insulin swings which tends to make people eat more. Ensuring some fat and fiber with your carbs can help with this by slowing gastric-emptying.

Right. anyway, its now Mon. and week 3 and iv decided that I will not slip again. will power is the question here, I have it but when it comes to carbs....you know what I’m talking about. damn! I guess I am just asking for reassurance that I’m doing everything right and that my thyroid isn’t all messed up you know?

The main things I can offer are these:

1. Be careful not to reduce calories too low during the week or you will screw up your metabolic rate. My general starting point rule of thumb is 12 cal/lb. of current bodyweight which should allow about 1-1.5 lbs. fat lost per week.

2. At some point, to maintain training intensity you will have to eat some carbs, it's just a fact of life. Some options are to try short carb meals right before or after your workout (say 50 grams of carbs with some protein). Another is to do a carb-load every other weekend so you end up 12-13 day in ketosis. Several people have reported greater fat loss this way anyhow.

3. Just keep at it. After a while, the all you can eat junk food weekends get old. AT this point, when I do CKD, I carb on bagels and stuff, just not interested in the sugary stuff.

Subject: Alcohol and Ketosis

Lyle,

Does drinking alcohol sabotage ketosis? If so, is it okay to drink alcohol during the carb-up phase of CKD?

Actually, no it doesn't. In fact, there is a fairly rare condition called alcoholic ketoacidosis which occurs when individuals have gone for long periods of time with no food (which induces ketosis) but are drinking heavily. Alcohol affects liver metabolism and actually increases ketone output. Which sounds good but it can be dangerous because the over-production of ketones can cause acidity and death if you're not careful. But, yes, small amounts of alcohol can be consumed during ketosis without problems. Just note that you may get drunk faster and any calories that you consume in alcohol will detract from fat loss.

For the carb-load, alcohol should be fine.

Subject: Lower Abdominal Fat

First, I want to extend my appreciation for all the no-nonsense bodybuilding information you provide.

Now to my question. I have about 8%BF right now, but for me to get down to 7% or less seems impossible. I have been training for some time and now about (and use) the ECA stack in a cyclic pattern in the manner you recommend. The meat of my question is that I am able to lose all the fat off my body except the layer over my abs. It's as if this fat simply won't burn off.

Unless this question relates to BAT, I haven't heard you or any other "dieting expert" address this question. Dan D. did say in BodyOpus that his ketogenic diet promises to burn the stubborn fat first, although you haven't made this suggestion from what I know. Granted, I haven't tried your ketogenic diet before (I'm waiting for your book to hit the market), but I'd really like to hear your opinion on whether I can burn this fat off or if I'm stuck with it.

I personally don't think there's any magical solution to the problem.

Although there is some anecdotal evidence that lowcarb diets help with women's stubborn bodyfat problems (i.e. glutes and hips), there hasn't been as many reports of men's ab/low back fat just melting off.

Basically, it's a just a function of time. Even with the best diet, the last place men will lose their bodyfat is around their midsection, women on their hips and thighs. As I mention in another Q&A, some of it is surely hormonal, some receptor density, and some I'll just chalk up to those bastard gremlins.

Basically, to lose the lower-ab fat, you're gonna have to find a way to get your bodyfat a bit lower. Which just comes back to the age old solution: eat less/exercise more. Yeah, that's a vast simplification but it's pretty much the meat of the matter when you get down to brass tacks.

The only other solution I can offer than to just keep trying is oral yohimbe (although topical would work better if we could find a good carrier) prior to first thing in the morning cardio. I can think of at least one or two people who have reported better results in terms of abdominal stubborn bodyfat by using yohimbe along with cardio. It's something to try at least. Some other fat loss breaking strategies are:

1. Calorie cycling: rather than a straight caloric intake every week of your diet, alternate slightly above and below the average. So if your average caloric intake is 12 cal/lb., you might do 10 cal/lb., 13 cal/lb., 11

cal/lb., 12 cal/lb., 11 cal/lb. or something like that. Seems to help in some cases.

2. Interval training helps some people get off of fat loss plateaus. Just be wary of overtraining and muscle loss.

3. The yohimbe solution I mentioned above.

4. Reduce carbs further as suggested in Bodyopus.

Thanks again, and I hope you start selling your CKD book soon.

Actually, for anyone who hasn't given up on me, I sent the book to the publisher Friday, Dec 12 and should be getting it back around the end of January. There will be an announcement here on Mesomorphosis.com with information soon.

Subject: Women and Fat Loss

I am a 37 year old woman who has been trying to lose fat, in the but and leg area, for years. I have tried controlled dieting, aerobics, weight training, and combinations. Am I cursed to have fat legs forever or is there something I can do. Please help!

The answer to this question should be available on Mesomorphosis.com in the form of two excellent articles on alpha-adrenoreceptors and their effects on fat loss in men and women. To make a long story short (you can see Elzi Volk's articles for the long story), women's lower body fat tends to have greater concentrations of these little buggers called alpha-adrenoreceptors, which have as their ultimate effect decreased fat mobilization. This is at least part of why women tend to store fat in their glutes and hips while men store in their abs.

One solution (discussed in part 2 of Elzi's articles) is use of the supplement yohimbine. In conjuction with cardio first thing in the morning, it seems to help with lower bodyfat loss for women.

Anecdotally, women seem to lose lower bodyfat better with lowered carb intakes as well but I've yet to come up with a reason why.

Subject: Gaining Weight While Minimizing Body Fat

Hi Lyle, I am stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place. I am 24, 5'11" and 178lbs at 11.5-12 BFP. While I want to get bigger I also want to maintain a sub 10 BFP. When I diet i.e.12cal/lb I lose mass and muscle fullness

Have you tried using a slightly higher caloric intake. While 12 cal/lb. works well for most people, it can be too low for some and too high for others.

and when I bulk up i.e. 15cal/lb on 40/40/20 diets I get fat around the midsection. The CKD diet after the 5th low carb day has me feeling withered away. I am in the ketone area just above Trace and got there in two days or sooner. My muscle fullness is gone and it seems like I've lost a lot of size.

It's glycogen and water and comes back during the carb-up. As an example, I taped my arms (such as they are) during ketosis and after a carb-up and there was a good 1/4" difference in size with measurements about 1 day apart. it's normal to fee very flat and small while in ketosis because of the water and glycogen loss. But it corrects when you carb-up.

Currently I am following the Bodyopus Workout to the tee. I am using a slow tempo a la Poloquin typically do two to three days of cardio as a rule regardless of which diet I'm on. I keep my workouts short and intense. Is the CKD diet the right one for me or am I predestined to a skinny with fat physique. Would DiPasquale's Diet fit me better?

There's no real difference between the Anabolic diet and a CKD. CKD is simply a more general term encompassing any diet which alternates periods of ketosis and periods of high-carb intake. This includes Rebound Dieting, the Anabolic Diet, Bodyopus and I'm sure others.

I have run into people who lose more mass on CKD than on more moderate carb-diets so such is not unheard of, probably just reflects individuals variance. however, 5 days on any diet isn't gonna really tell you how it will work for you. If you can get past the psychological impact of feeling flat and small, CKD may work stunningly for you or it may not.

Should I bulk up with a cycle of d-bol and Deca and then cut up?(never used AAS) What can I do? Please help me if you can. RC

Considering that testosterone is at least *one* causative factor for why men tend to put on proportionally more fat on their abs than in other bodyparts, I don't know if using AS would do you any good in that regard. however, steroids are absolutely NOT my area of expertise, Bill Roberts of Pat Arnold could give you a much better answer.

Subject: ThermoPro versus ECA

How's it going Lyle? I've read some of your articles and am pleased to finally find someone out there willing to give information to the masses that is intelligent, and based in research. Without the intent of selling his or her own supplements.

My question is in regards to Pro Lab's product called Therma Pro. I've used this product as well as the ephedrine STACK. I noticed a much greater effect on my body temperature from the Therma Pro product. Is an increase in body temp 100% correlated to an increase in metabolism? Even though my body temperature experiences a greater increase on Therma Pro does it burn fat as effectively as the stack?

Yes and no. There's a definite correlation between body temp and metabolic rate. The general value given is that 1 degree change in bodyweight is equal to a 5-10% change in metabolic rate. However I'm not sure this is *always* going to be the case. Yes, in general body temp is controlled by the activity of thyroid and catecholamine hormones (and I'm sure other things). However, some compounds (like synephrine for example) will raise body temp by causing vasoconstriction of blood vessels in the skin. So while body temp is higher, it's because less is being lost to the environment, not because more is being generated.

Also, some people I've talked to on lowcarb diets have noted no difference in fat loss with declining body temperature, suggesting that it's more complicated than just looking at the thermometer (it always is). Now if someone would just come up with a urine strip to test for catecholamines, we could really find out what was going on with metabolic rate.

I guess my main question would be what the difference is in ingredients between Therma-pro and a straight stack of ECA. They may have added other compounds (such as the amino acid l-tyrosine, the herb cayenne/capsaicin, ginger) which also increase thermogenesis beyond straight ECA. I will say that ECA + tyrosine definitely affects me more than ECA by itself but I've never kept particularly good body temp records.

Subject: Lipoic Acid, Flax, Borage Oil

Finally, Alpha Lipoic Acid was mentioned. I use 100mg with my 1st 2 meals everyday. My muscles always have a nice pump to them ever since I started using it (coincidence? doubt it). Anyway u have any idea on dosages. For insulin control? As an anti-oxidant? To combat catabolism(read that it helps reduce glycation)?

I've only read a small amount of the lipoic acid literature (most of it is in German anyhow) so it's hard for me to give specific answers to these. For insulin control/glycogen storage, people seem to be doing well with 1-2 grams/day which is quite expensive. I think a better bet is to start lower (say 600 mg/day in divided doses) and see if more gives any better results.

As to anti-oxidant doses I have no idea, and I don't see how lipoic acid would directly affect catabolism (except by acting as an insulin mimic).

One more question how much flax in tablespoons? I've been using 5 with 1 teaspoon of borage oil. Any dosage recommendation of the borage/flax combo (in teaspoons for borage and tablespoons for flax)?

For all fats, 1 tbsp = 14 grams of oil. Dosage, no idea but most I've talked to seem to take 1-3 TBSP per day of flax. The requirement for EFA's is pitifully small (a few grams/day at most) and no-one can really say for sure what the *optimal* dose is for fat loss or bodybuilding.

Subject: Body Fat, Arms, and Abdominal Fat

How's it going...okay here's the deal. I guess I have a more of a ectomorphic body type but this is kind of throwing me off. I read everywhere that ectomorphs have a hard time putting on weight (both fat and muscle) which is where I differ. I weigh 185 at 5'11 and am 20 years old.

One thing to realize is that it's incredibly rare to find someone who fits exactly into one body type or another. It's more accurate to say that individuals have characteristics of varying body types. In fact, if you look at how body type is measured, the calculations give numbers for each of the three major body types (ecto-, endo-, meso-morph) on a scale from 1 to 9. So someone could have a high degree of ectomorphism (loosely: tall and lanky) but still score moderately in the other two body type categories.

My arms measure a puny 15" which make them thin just like my legs. I know what you're thinking lift heavy and basic movements BUT it just seems to make my arms look smaller because my chest and back are a good size it's just my thin limbs that make it all look awkward.

Odd that you mention this but I am in the same boat. Although my chest/back muscles grow marginally well, arms and shoulders tend to grow poorly. And in the past I have done compound stuff almost exclusively. The only thing I can think of is that my arms are somehow getting overworked with the heavy compound movements. In which case the solution to try (in this case) would be to decrease your compound movement work (bench, row, pulldown) and focus on direct arm work for a little while.

Yup, you've got a serious condition here. One that increases the risk of heart disease, shortens life span, increases the risk of certain types of cancer (esp. prostate) and I'm sure some others. It's called being a man, a truly horrible condition to have (and your parents are to blame).

Seriously, although the exact reasons are complicated (involving receptor density, see for example Bryan Haycock's article on beta-receptors and Elzi Volk's articles on alpha-receptors, and hormone levels) in general men tend to gain bodyfat around the middle (sometimes called android obesity) while women tend to gain on the butt and hips (sometimes called gynoid obesity).

As a personal testament to this, I exhibit major android obesity. When I gain bodyfat, the only skinfolds to change are my abdominals and iliac (above the hipbone) skinfolds. My thigh and pec skinfold haven't changed in years. By the same token, when I lose fat, the only place to really show any changes are in the ab and ilium although it goes very slowly.

So it's basically just a genetic thing and I don't know that there's a whole lot that you can do about it.

Subject: CKD Scheduling

First let me say thank you for all your great articles. They are a great resource. My question has to do with the type of weight training when on a CKD (like BodyOpus) diet. From reading your articles and Q&A, I gather that a HIT routine is not desirable on a CKD diet...that I need to increase the volume to deplete muscle glycogen?

Correct. If there's a 'problem' with the CKD it's that it requires a fairly high volume if you are to deplete glycogen in the span of 5-6 days. However, one option (though not as fun) is to carb-load every other weekend if you prefer to stick with HIT/low volume training.

So my thinking is I can stay with my beloved HIT routine when in a mass building phase, and then when I diet, up the volume according to the Mon./Tues./Fri. routine you specify. A related question I have is with my current job I sometimes travel. This doesn’t affect my training currently as I can just wait a day if I'm on the road(nice advantage of HIT). But if I go on a CKD diet, it seems very restrictive...meaning missing a workout would be very bad. Also eating on the road is a pain in the you know what, and if I'm on the road when I need to carb up, for example, I don’t want to pass out or something. Any advice is appreciated.

This is another problem with the CKD, it's peculiar nature does make it more restrictive than other diets. The main piece of advice I can give is that it's not written in stone that the CKD MUST be a 7 day cycle. 7 days was chosen not for any peculiar physiological reason, but more out of convenience since it fits the average person's work week (diet during week, eat normally on weekends). If your travel affects workouts, or mandates that you carb a day earlier or later, the end result is unlikely to be hugely different in the long run.

Subject: Adequate protein/ketogenic ratio/calorie restriction conundrum

Dear Lyle:

In your Body Opus Experience posts, you mention the apparent conundrum of adequate protein intake/1.5:1 fat to protein ration/calorie restriction to 12 times bodyweight. To illustrate, I weigh 180 lbs. At one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight, my protein intake should be 180 grams. This equates to 720 calories. A ketogenic ratio of 1.5:1 for fat to protein requires a minimum fat intake of 270 grams. This equates to 2430 calories. Thus, my total caloric intake would be 3150 calories; this is far in excess of the 2160 calories that the 12 times bodyweight calculation would have me consume. You asked for an answer to this problem in your posts; did you ever get one? And can you give me one?

Also, just wanted to let you know I was highly impressed with the Body Opus experience posts. Their format was evocative of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig. Good work.

The solution was actually fairly simple: screw the ratios. The 1.5:1 ketogenic ratio (which represents the ratio of fat grams:grams of protein + carb) is critical for using the ketogenic diet for epilepsy (since something about high levels of ketones or a result of those levels seems to be the cause for decreased seizures).

However for fat loss, the ratio is unnecessary and probably not desirable. In fact, the ideal situation would be the one where you could consume the least fat grams, without screwing up ketosis (from too much protein) and without screwing up your metabolic rate. In theory, this would allow maximal use of bodyfat.

So, in practice, the method I advocate for setting up a keto diet is:

1. Set calorie levels (i.e. 12-13 cal/lb. for fat loss)

2. Set protein levels: generally 0.9 g/lb.

3. Set carb levels: it's impossible to get truly zero carb grams so I

usually figure 10.

4. The rest is fat.

So, I'm 195 lbs., right now.

1. 195 X 12 = 2340 cal/day

2. 195 * 0.9 = 175 g protein * 4 cal/gram = 702 cal

3. 10 grams carbs * 4 cal/gram = 40 cal

4. 2340 cal - 702 cal - 40 cal = 1600 cal from fat / 9 cal/gram = 177 gram fat

So in practice, the ratio comes out a lot closer to 1:1 than 1.5:1. And the problem is solved: adequate calories, adequate protein.

Subject: MCTs

Hi , I bought some Twinlab MCT Fuel but it does not say how much fat is in it . How much should I put in a protein shake to have a good 1.5 to 1 fat to protein ratio. Thanks a lot!!!!!!!

All fats have 14 grams of fat/tbsp of oil. It's one of the few constants in the universe.